Monday, February 11, 2013

Copper and Vitamin C issues

EDIT (8/16/13):
I am pleased to report that this issue has been well controlled for the past several months.  If I take my fully DV of copper in supplement form, I need 500 mg of Vitamin C to balance it out.  If I take less copper, I need less C and vice versa.

EDIT (4/2/14):
The copper had consistently read low on my hair test (usually about 1.5 vs. ideal of 2.5) but it is obvious now that I had a hidden toxicity all along.  The Hulda Clark liver detox freed the copper from my liver and now it has spilled into my tissues.  Vitamin C is still a good option.  Other minerals that have been helpful to others include magnesium, molybdenum and selenium.

EDIT (10/28/14)
  I've learned quite a bit since my last edit.  In addition to the hair test, I recommend a serum copper and ceruloplasmin test.  Copper bound to ceruloplasmin is a good thing.  Too much unbound copper is toxic.  In order to determine your unbound copper, multiply ceruloplasmin by 3 and subtract it from total copper.  Ceruloplasmin should be 25-35.  Unbound copper should be between 5-15.  I endorse sulfur containing amino acids to reduce unbound copper.  To raise ceruloplasmin, consider Whole Food C (not ascorbic acid) and/or Liver Beef.

 Another post by my alter-ego: Dr. J.  Here it is.
  In December of 2012, I began trending off the Thym-Adren in spite of the fact that my medical report indicated off the scale imbalances, revealing the need for mega doses.  The only problem was that I could not tolerate the one pill that has been proven to effective in getting me towards balance.  There had to be some reason why I could not take it without stiffening up something awful.  I surmised that I had a hidden copper toxicity or bio-unavailability.  Vitamin C is a powerful copper antagonist so I began taking some of it to combat the problem.  Presto!  I could tolerate as much Thym-Adren as I needed and despite a few hiccups, I had a good month in January (4-0/3.37).

 Then all of a sudden, the Vitamin C stopped working and my body reacted to it as if it was toxic.  That's right.  It was working beautifully through the end of week 4.  I was fine on 1/28, a little flat the next day and downright BAD on 1/30.  Simply reducing the dose was not enough.  I had to avoid it in any form.  In week 6, I drank a bottle of orange juice with my breakfast and tightened up so badly that when I tried to touch my toes, I could barely get past my knees.

I now believe that my original diagnosis of a copper toxicity was not quite correct.  More likely, it was a Vitamin C deficiency brought on in part by excess copper.  The tell tale sign is usually bleeding gums, which was present in my case at times but it was not too severe.  The Vitamin C supplementation proved to be effective in resolving that deficiency.  However, as I stated before, Vitamin C is a powerful copper antagonist.  Thus, too much of it will deplete copper to dangerously low levels if taken long-term. Odds are that I am a bit low in both copper and C. That may explain why Vitamin C was good for me then became toxic all of a sudden.  The copper over-rode the C issue. Treating one will make the other worse.  Ouch!

The nightmare:
I've already taken a few days worth of copper to get that value back up and should be able to stay off it long-term.  There is a fear that the Vitamin C deficiency could come back even if I avoid copper as much as possible.  If that happens, taking C is a quick fix but in any form (including fruits and juices), it can trigger the copper deficiency again.

The plan of attack:
-Avoid any forms of copper (including some protein bars) and Vitamin C that is not present in my supplements.  I'm already getting nearly my daily value of copper from the day's dose of Thym-Adren, which also contains Vitamin C.
-Stay away from caffeine and beer which deplete Vitamin C.
-Stay away from fruit drinks high in C, which deplete copper.
-That means pretty much just drink water and Gatorade, which has worked well in the past.
-I could switch to another pill but I have my doubts about its effectiveness.
As a last resort, I am open to a break from running.  I've always maintained that these imbalances would be there regardless of whether I ran or not and that I'd never be able to manage it so well if not for running but if all else fails, I will take a break.
The good news is that as the body gets closer to balance in a fast oxidizer, tissue copper levels will usually rise without supplementation, which leaves me less vulnerable to problems if I need extra Vitamin C.

Emotional state:
I was pretty angry when I was struggling with my job in 2008 but that was an external circumstance.  If you ask me, this is worse.  The cycle keeps repeating itself: 6-8 good weeks then I lose 3 or 4 in a row.  If/when I get this straight, another issue will probably pop up.  Why should I believe any differently?  I am having serious doubts about whether or not I can beat this once and for all.  I've accepted having to take pills and I'm okay with that.  Being unstable is not something that I will tolerate and if this is how my life will go, the anger and bitterness that I feel will only get worse.  When it comes to chemical imbalances, happiness is not a choice!


Tokizo said...

I see. Thank you.

Tokizo said...
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